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Thread: What brands of milk products have the least points

  1. Post

    I'm trying to get my milk servings in with the least amount of points and I'm allergic to milk.

    So far I've found "Dannon Light n Fit" which would equal 8 oz for 2 points and 20% calcium. Also a nonfat Feta Cheese which is 1 point for 2 ounces and 20% calcium.

    I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions.

    [ March 16, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: DebbieBar ]
    Debbie B.

  2. #2
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    The amount of calcium has nothing to do with considering it a dairy item. To be counted as a dairy it has to be a dairy however W/W knows there are other things such as allergies and lactose intolerance that can be a problem.

    Posted by Leader Diane on November 21, 2003 at 09:05 AM

    "According to the Leader's Manual, there is no set percentage of RDA of Calcium with Flex Points. The requirement is "dairy". Page 19 of Getting Started has two columns-one lists calcium rich foods, the other has checks by the items that count as a milk product for WW. Calcium alone is not sufficient. There are compounds in dairy that act on the calcium contained. In addition, there are other beneficial nutrients. The ONLY things that meet WW requirements are milk, cheese and yogurt (and things such as latte or pudding made with these things). Calcium really does not have all the benefits of dairy products. Anything that gets calcium as a result of being fortified (soy milk, bars, cereal) cannot count as a milk product. Dairy only.

    Lots of recent studies regarding the benefits of dairy regarding fat loss.

    Keep in mind that it takes 2 cups of cottage cheese to count as a milk. That is a lot of cottage cheese.

    What the study says is that supplements and calcium by itself is better than nothing but not nearly as beneficial as dairy.

    If you are interested in the more scientific explanation of the study, you can find it here. Yes, it says calcium is good, but dairy increases fat loss substantially.

    This is the related sentence: Notably, dairy sources of calcium exert markedly greater effects in attenuating weight and fat gain and accelerating fat loss. This augmented effect of dairy vs. supplemental calcium is likely attributable to additional bioactive compounds in dairy that act synergistically with calcium to attenuate adiposity; among these are angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitory peptides, which limit angiotensin II production and thereby limit angiotensin II stimulation of adipocyte lipogenesis. These concepts are confirmed by both epidemiological and clinical data, which similarly demonstrate that dairy products exert a substantially greater effect on both fat loss and fat distribution compared to an equivalent amount of supplemental calcium. Dairy Study"

    What about vegans?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Leader's Manual info. for Vegetarians says that vegans need to substitute dairy foods with non-animal based, calcium-rich sources. Members should include foods each day that are rich in calcium....

    It goes on to emphasize that calcium rich foods do not provide all the benefits of dairy.

    It specifies that calcium-rich foods do not meet the requirement for milk products.

    From the week one booklet:

    To meet your calcium needs, calcium-fortified soy milka nd tofu are good sources. Dark green vegetables such as broccoli, collard greens, kale, bok choy and mustard greens contribute calcium as do dry beans and sesame seeds.

    Lactose intolerant?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "If you're lactose-intolerant look for dairy products that are labeled lactose-free or lactose-reduced, or pills to help digestion of lactose (the naturally occurring sugar in milk)."

    What counts as a dairy serving:

    1 grande (16 fl oz) cappuccino [2-4 points]
    2 cups cottage cheese [6-10 points]
    1 oz hard or semi-soft cheese, any type [2-4 points]
    cup ricotta cheese [2-6 points]
    1 packet reduced-calorie dairy shake [2 points]
    1 tall (12 fl oz) latte [2-5 points]
    1 cup meal replacement/nutritional supplement drink [5 points]
    1 (12 fl oz) fast food milkshake [10 points]
    1 cup fat-free, sugar-free made with skim milk pudding [3 points]
    1 cup yogurt [2-5 points]
    1 cup milk [2-4 points]

  3. #3

    Post

    Try soy slender its 1 pt per 1 cup its very sweet and great
    Wendy

    SW 154
    GW 142
    CW 137

  4. #4

    Post

    I know in the ideal WW plan, you should be eating an 8oz cup of yogurt or an 8oz glass of milk a day, but frankly I don't do it...Why? Because with only 20 points a day, I just can't bring myself to spend 20-25% of those points on something I don't really enjoy eating or drinking...What I usually do is mix diet hot choc w/ calcium (20 calories) with 4 oz of skim milk (1pt)...I also use the Alba Shakes which are 1 pt when mixed with water...Yes, I KNOW all the benefits that dairy supposedly brings to weight loss...But I've lost 16 lbs since Christmas from 145 to 129...below goal again (finally) and feel great...I really think WW needs to find a way to adjust the point system or something in order to better fit dairy into the plan...It just doesn't seem right that a glass of 2% and skim have the same amount of points...I also eat other foods like cheese and low fat icecream and what not in small amounts to help supplement and I take a multivitamin...but I just can't bring myself to spend 4 or 5 points a day on foods that I don't like...

  5. #5

    Post

    20 is a target point. Don't forget you have AP and Flex beyond that. But, as they keep saying, they're your points, you can spend them the way you like. From a nutrition view, dairy servings are almost a daily must whether it comes from yogurt, milk, or cheese. One of the old WW plans allowed 1 milk serving to be swapped for Alba or pudding. We have far more latitude with what we eat compared to those older plans. Gotta love the point system. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

    I'm not one that has a hard time getting in milk servings. But for others there's lots of ways to get it. Tried the crustless pumpkin pie? That's 1/2 milk serving and a veggie. Milk and cereal are staples for me too.

    Mainly wanted to bring out that it's not strictly 20 points a day for anyone since we have Flex and AP to use. [img]smile.gif[/img] Fast Track plan not included in that statement. [img]graemlins/bcbsalute.gif[/img]

  6. #6
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    I agree I would never survive on ONLY 20 point a day. I average 25-30 points a day (and lose consistently especially since I added dairy --- 2 servings a day).

    You get those FPs to use (remember all they really are is banked points from the old program) and you get to use your APs too.

    Remember that points are based on calories/fat/fiber so it is possible that 1% and skim are the same points because you can have up to 120 cal with 0 fat and fiber for 2 points.

    Dairy is a very good weight loss HELPER!

  7. #7

    Post

    It just doesn't seem right that a glass of 2% and skim have the same amount of points.
    It is not the same amount of points. 1% and skim are the same.

    I really think WW needs to find a way to adjust the point system or something in order to better fit dairy into the plan.
    Weight Watchers has devised a flexible program, there are no foods that off-limits. Members need to accept responsibility for eating the foods that they like and that meet their RDA requirements.

    Just my two-cents worth!
    Success is a journey not a destination!

  8. #8

    Post

    I think we all have to do what works for us...Personally, I don't like milk or yogurt...and I'm just not going to spend 4 or 5 points out of 20 on foods I don't like...My very first WW leader told me to NEVER eat something I don't like...I've been a WW for 16 years and this is what works for me...I can't eat more than 20 points a day or I won't lose...If you can...great...I can't...I don't use flex points or AP, even though I work out an hour a day...I've had to search long and hard to see what works for me...I don't think getting 6 oz of skim milk for 1 pt instead of 8 for 2 pts is going to kill me or cause any grave health problems...I eat an otherwise perfectly healthy diet...I'm under goal, my cholesterol is 120...my blood pressure 110 over 60, and I'm very physicially active...and just bought my first pair of size 4's!...so it's not as though I'm struggling with the program...what works for one person doesn't always work for another...My feeling is just that if dairy is so important to weight loss...that it should somehow be better worked into the program, much like fiber is...(I strongly oppose the 4g fiber cap) WW is constantly evolving to include the most updated nutritional information and I'm just hoping that for me, and others who have difficulty consuming what feels like a large percentage of points our points on dairy that there is an alteration somehow...

    [ March 18, 2004, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: bskc1991 ]

  9. #9

    Post

    I don't eat food that i don't like either, that's a bad idea for me because every time i try it ends up backfiring on me. ( i feel resentful then have to eat something i like) i hate most vegetables and almost never eat them.

    also, milk doesn't work for every one. i had been drinking soy milk for 5 years and a few months ago switched to organic skim to see if it would help with weight loss. well, i gained 5 pounds and was very nauseated. went back to soy and was back to normal.

  10. #10
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    1) some people have medical and/or reactions to dairy -- W/W is not saying that you should drink or eat dairy if you have these reactions however medical research has shown that it is beneficial for weight loss in the MAJORITY of people

    2) for those who say they cannot lose if they eat more than 20 is because over the years they have slowed their metabolism down by eating so little. There are 2 ways to increase metabolism 1) eat the proper amount based on your activity level (the more you exercise the more you can eat) and 2) exercise. My friend when she started W/W ate 18 points a day over the entire course of her weight loss journey even when she should have been eating 24-31 points (back from 1-2-3 Success). She got tired of feeling she was dieting and limited to 20 points a day to maintain and after working with her Doctor, Nutritionist, Registered Dietician and her W/W Leader and dealing with some minor gains she is now able to eat 25-26 points a day along with her 35 FPs a week and maintain. My other friend ate 1 range higher than she was told to (for example when she was at 22-29 points she ate 24-31) and lost 1-2 pounds a week. When she reached goal she is able to maintain on 35-40 points a day with 35 FPs a week. AND NEITHER ARE EXERCISERS. LOL!

  11. #11

    Post

    As I stated before, if YOU can eat that many points and lose weight...GREAT...I cannot...I already exercise an hour a day in addition to playing sports and working and taking care of 4 children...Plus I weigh 30 lbs LESS than you...It sounds all well and good to spout the chiches, but they just do not apply to everyone...I've tried eating more food, I've tried the *Wendi* type plan...I've added more protein, cut carbs, you name it...the ONLY thing that works for me is limiting the number of points I eat to 20 or less...I've been a WW for 16 years and been lifetime for almost 10...I know what works for me...My doctor raves about my excellent health and boundless energy...when I'm to the point that I want to maintain, I can add 3 or 4 points to what I eat...but I'd still like to lose 5-7 more lbs, which is well within my goal range...Not every rule works for every person...That's what is so great about WW is it's flexibility to adjust to one's individual needs...

  12. #12

    Post

    bskc1991,

    In 16 years you must of seen alot of changes in the program. WW has guidelines and recomendations but I think your right that the program was made to be flexable because not everyone is the same.

    I'm no expert, but the one thing I find interesting about studies is that the results always seem to benefit the major financial contributor. There are also studies out there that link dairy products with certain types of cancer. I'm not saying that one study or another is right or wrong. I just question there motives.

    Anyways, I really like this program and it's made a huge impact on my life and whatever works for you stick with it. We of all people should know that a "one size fits all" approach to anything doesn't always work.

  13. #13
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by Joseph:
    I'm no expert, but the one thing I find interesting about studies is that the results always seem to benefit the major financial contributor. There are also studies out there that link dairy products with certain types of cancer. I'm not saying that one study or another is right or wrong. I just question there motives.
    I beg to differ with you while one of the diary studies was funded by the Diary Council there are a minimum of 5 other studies that were done independently.

    I have not see any studies that link diary to cancer (I am not disputing that they are there just I have not seen them). There are more benefits to dairy than there are negatives.

  14. #14

    Post

    Kelly_S,

    I wasn't trying to dispute any studies. I was trying to point out that all studies have results. Does that mean they are all right? Of course not. Individual results should be the biggest factor and it sounds like bskc1991 has been around the block and back again.

    There are plenty of people in the world that believe the Atkins diet is the way to go and they have studies to prove it.

    [ April 19, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Joseph ]

  15. #15
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by Joseph:
    I wasn't trying to dispute any studies. I was trying to point out that all studies have results. Does that mean they are all right?
    With current medical research indicating that DAIRY does indeed help with weight loss however we all know that there are individual items that need to be taken into account.

    FYI Atkins works. Really it does. If you follow it you will lose weight. Just like SBD, Dr. Phil, calorie counting, etc. Any diet will work if you follow it and can sustain it. The key is SUSTAINING it!

  16. #16

    Post

    With current medical research indicating that DAIRY does indeed help with weight loss however we all know that there are individual items that need to be taken into account.
    Again, I am not disputing any dairy research. Personally I love dairy products.
    I guess that is where I was heading with my original post is that everyone is not the same. What works for you may not work for someone else.

    FYI Atkins works. Really it does. If you follow it you will lose weight. Just like SBD, Dr. Phil, calorie counting, etc. Any diet will work if you follow it and can sustain it. The key is SUSTAINING it!
    Yes, I know you can loose weight with Atkins. I've done it. But as you pointed out the most difficult thing for me was sustaining that kind of diet. I couldn't stick with that diet no matter how much positive research you put in front of me.

    Again, Congratulations bskc1991 for sticking with the program for so many years and finding what works for you.

    [ April 19, 2004, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Joseph ]

  17. #17
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    Joseph, I QUIT! I don't know where you got I was trying or anyone was trying to make her do something she didn't want to or didn't like! I am just trying to show her she does not have to limit herself to the 20 MINIMUM POINTS a day.

    99% of the people who say they can't lose by eating APs and FPs are because they've messed up their metabolism...so I think you did not understand what was going on here.

    Besides this whole thread was because someone did ask about dairy...GOOD DAY!

  18. #18

    Post

    Thanks, Joseph... [img]smile.gif[/img] You got what I was trying to say...No "rule" applies to any one person. While I'm sure there may be some scientific evidence as to the benefits of dairy, I've been able to lose very well these past four months without two "official" servings of dairy.

    I'd also like to know where the idea that someone who doesn't lose without using their flex and activity points has "screwed up" their metabolism.

    I choose not to use my flex points. As it says on my planner, use a few, use them all or none at all (or something like that) You don't HAVE to eat your flex points to be healthy. The are an option to use if you choose to. When I was eating higher points I was up to 150 lbs and wearing a size 10. I didn't like how I looked or felt. When I went back to meetings and went back on the plan and started making better food choices, I found 20 points was plenty for me and I'm rarely hungry. I'm trying to maintain now and am somewhat gunshy about adding points but I'm working on it.

    I love being able to buy low cut jeans in a size 4, sleeveless shirts and my first ever two piece bathing suit. It's worth it to me not to eat those extra points. If it's not worth it to you, then don't do it. It seems simple enough to me. I'm not sure why so many have a problem with it.

    Thanks again, Joe for the support...

  19. #19
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    While using the flex points is pure a personal preference what I said was 99% PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY ARE UNABLE TO LOSE WHEN THEY USE FLEX POINTS IT IS BECAUSE OVER THE YEARS THEY HAVE SLOWED OR MESSED UP THEIR METABOLISM.

    Not a single thing about you can't lose without them.

    W/W is designed to keep you from starving by utilizing a minimum or TPs a day. This is the very minimum a body needs. Additionally W/W designed the program for a maximum point per week which was the high end of the range or FPs in addition to any earned APs if a person wishes to choose.

    Many people say oh I can't lose if I eat APs and FPs. However medical and dietary research has shown that if they would give their bodies a few weeks to adjust with possibly some small gains or maintains they'd be able to eat their TPs + FPs + APs and still lose at a consistent rate.

    I think maybe my wording was misunderstood or taken personally.

    I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO EAT DAIRY and I NEVER SAID I WANTED TO FORCE YOU TO EAT IT my point was to show others while you eat the VERY MINIMUM there are other points you can eat and still lose and that utilizing those points is an option.

    BTW the PointsPies are set up for the diary (and yes it still is a personal option but I also remember a time that BCB said you were NOT ON PROGRAM unless you had the dairy):

    Balanced (under 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 8-9 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 6-7 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 0-3 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 2-3 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    20-28 points a day

    Higher Protein (under 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 5-6 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 9-11 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 0-1 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 2-4 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    20-28 points a day

    Higher Carb (under 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 9-10 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 5-7 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 1-3 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 1-2 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    20-28 points a day

    -----

    Balanced (over 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 11 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 10 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 3-4 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 2-3 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    30-34 points a day

    Higher Protein (over 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 8 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 12 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 2-3 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 4-5 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    30-34 points a day

    Higher Carb (over 250 pounds)

    Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods 13 points a day
    Protein-rich Foods 8 points a day
    Fruits and Veggies 2-4 points a day
    Fats, added sugars 3 points a day
    Milk and Milk Products 4-6 points a day

    30-34 points a day

  20. #20

    Post

    Besides this whole thread was because someone did ask about dairy...GOOD DAY!
    She also stated she was allergic to milk. Which I'm sure includes most dairy products. ....I said GOOD DAY!(in my best Fez impersonation)

    My original post was not an attack on your information about dairy research. It was just a personal opinion about research studies in general.

    I apolgize for any misunderstanding on my part.

  21. Post

    Originally posted by Kelly_S:
    99% PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY ARE UNABLE TO LOSE WHEN THEY USE FLEX POINTS IT IS BECAUSE OVER THE YEARS THEY HAVE SLOWED OR MESSED UP THEIR METABOLISM.
    I have to comment on this: there is no valid research that proves this theory to be true. It is only a theory & even if it were true I doubt it would explain 99% of cases of slow metabolism.
    Ya-ya name: Queen Glimmering Moon<br /><br />Age 47<br />5' 7 1/2"<br />SW: 160<br />CW: 149<br />GW: 150

  22. #22
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    Actually when I was taking my nutritional classes for my degree (which I have not achieved yet because of finances...need 9 credit hours) there is research and some where in my school stuff I have those studies however with a couple moves in between those classes and I know they are in a box somewhere and I have not come across them.

    The metabolisms get messed up by many factors that include but are not limited to:

    1) over eating
    2) under eating
    3) lack of exercise
    4) over exercising

    Oh and BTW she said she is allergic to milk but was looking for dairy items --- she is using yogurt and cheeses but the 20% RDA has nothing to do with if W/W considers it a dairy.

    [ April 20, 2004, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Kelly_S ]

  23. #23
    Join Date
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    Post

    I have read through this thread, and I must jump in here to defend Kelly.

    She is simply stating information that is in the Weight Watcher program as it is written, as well as research she has located and studied. She was trying to be helpful. And I have also read research about one's ability to re-set their metabolism if you're unable to eat very many points to maintain or lose.

    Now, if anyone is dissatisfied with certain aspects of WW, and chooses not to follow the program as it is written, then that is their choice. But you can't expect everyone to agree with that here on this site. Weight Watchers was designed by numerous professionals in the field of weight loss and psychology, and is very scientifically-based. So please do not jump on anyone who is attempting to help you by simply re-iterating what is written in Book 1, as well as taking the time to provide other information that may be helpful.

    Giving advice and sharing the benefit of one's own experience is the backbone of Bootcamp Buddies. [img]graemlins/thumbup.gif[/img]

    [ April 21, 2004, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: SSKatie ]
    ---Katie, CEO of Me, Inc & living my new-normal
    highest:375(fall '98),5'4"//11-19-08 WW restart:277//current:247//2nd 10%:225//NEXT MINI GOAL:239//goal:150
    *He leadeth me.

  24. #24
    imported_Kelly_S Guest

    Post

    Thank you Katie! That is all I posted like you said.

  25. #25

    Post

    That was my point exactly, Katie...Sharing experience and information.

    You can bombard with all of the facts and supposed scientific evidence, but it all boils down to individual results.

    Saying *Dairy causes fat loss* just isn't accurate. The nature of clinical trials and scientific studies being what they are, say 60% of particiapants had greater fat loss eating dairy than those who didn't still means many people didn't experience that loss.

    For some, perhaps many, eating all of their flex points helps them to lose. For me, it didn't. I gained. I exercise quite a bit and I can't see adding any more. If my metabolism is "screwed up" then it's been that way since I was a child. I've never eaten large amounts of food even when overweight. I'm not here to try and convince anyone that eating 20 points a day is right for everyone. Or that not eating 2 full dairy servings is right for everyone. I'm saying this is what worked for *ME*...I don't care what the *facts* are, I care about the results. I'm thin, very healthy and very happy.

    I also don't understand why someone would say they are losing 1-2 lbs consistently since addding dairy and then on another thread say they haven't lost any weight in months because of moving. How can you be losing consistently but not lose weight in months???

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