(Update)Teenage son problems...my motivation level

[Zurichnee]

is way down.
DH and I have been having major difficulties with our 15 year old son. All troubles listed separately would seem so trivial, but all combined it is a big deal. Since he was 11 or 12 we saw minor problems and tried to deal with them, but over the last year things have escalated like you wouldn't believe. Some highlights are: constant lying, no responsibility for himself, no respect for family, suspect he's been stealing things (anything from pencils to cash), no effort in school or homework and now we found out he's been smoking since November and is using that as a reason to why he hasn't been able to concentrate on school and homework...cause we didn't know he smoked, so if he got frustrated he couldn't go calm down with a cigatette. A month ago he disclosed that he had contemplated suicide. We had a mediator in and my son told al of us he'd put an honest effort into school, etc. but he hasn't. Anyway, I'm to the point of mild depression I think...I can't seem to make my brain work...can't seem to get motivated enough to even walk on the treadmill. Still trying to eat right, but cna't seem to get the excersise. Don't seem to have the strength. I don't know what to do about my son and I think the family could very easily fall apart at this point.(It is 9 am and my son is still in bed. Won't get to school on time today, but that is par for the course.
Does anyone else have a similar problem. How do you deal with it? How do you keep on track and stay motivated? Am I just a weak parent? I'm starting to think so. Today, my son loses all his electronics. He had lost his DVD player after the last episode, but didn't earn it back and last night we saw it in his room, which means he snuck it back. FInal straw and now he is losing tv, stereo, game cube and DVD again. I hate being tough like that - makes me sad - but nothing is working with him and the state my family is in is making me sad too.

Anyway, I guess I should shut up. If anyone actually read this thru, thanks so much...and if there is any advice out there, I could really use it.

[ April 26, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Zurichnee ]

[lilwitch78]

It is not easy being a parent. I am very far away from having a teenager but have been one myself. You as a parent have to do what you think will help him. I could not even tell you what to do. Counseling is a start. You have to see what makes him tick. What is making him do what he is doing. A counselor is your first step. When things get to a point where you are no longer able to solve the problem on your own you have to go get professional help. Remember as a parent you are responsible for what he does until he is 18 years old. Also remember as a parent you can set a path for your children and if they choose to walk it that is their choice. You can constantly remind them about the repercussions of taking the wrong road. Unfortunately any attention at all is attention, be it negative or positive. If you take eveything from him it is negative. You have to sit down calmly and explain to him what he is doing is wrong and why. Again, I am not a parent of a teenager but I was one not that long ago. Reassure him that you are there to help and if he needs to talk or needs a friend you are there. You are so not a weak parent. You are taking notice to what your child is doing and that is what a parent does. I put my daughter in time out and I get upset.

He seems to be avoiding taking responsiblity for his actions. He is blaming his cigarette habit on how he acts. Try and find out where he is getting the cigarettes from. Does he have older friends that buy them for him? Is he buying them? I learned with how my mother raised me the more you tell them no the more they do it. You do have the right to ban him from smoking in or around your house though. Let him know you do not approve and let him know what could happen to his body if he continues. It could stop him from growing. Do what you can to show him you care. If he continues to get worse seek help. You are not the only parent out there that is having this problem. There are many. My mother works with high school kids in the inner city. She see it all.

I will tell you a story. My aunt has a son that is addicted to drugs BIG TIME! He has been kicked out of a half-way house and is now in a program run by the Salvation Army. Him and his sister were raised really well. Had everything they needed and his sister is on the Dean's List in college. He had a great job. Wanted a family but got mixed up with the wrong people. He is a really nice guy but is an addict. My aunt wants to know what she did wrong. I told her that she did nothing wrong. Some people could take 1 pill and be addicted for life where others could take 1 pill a day for years and then just are able to stop taking them. It is really weird how it our bodies work. So, it happens to lots of parents.

I hope I helped a little. I will keep you in my prayers and hope it all works out for you. Good Luck!

[Zurichnee]

Originally posted by lilwitch78:
If you take eveything from him it is negative. You have to sit down calmly and explain to him what he is doing is wrong and why. Reassure him that you are there to help and if he needs to talk or needs a friend you are there. Hi Lori,
Lots of good advice there...and we will be getting a counsellor at some point...soon as possible. I just wanted to say, that we have tried sitting him down and speaking calmly as you suggested. I had a try, my husband did twice within a week and we did together. We tried explaining why we were frustrated and at our wits end. Unfortuneately he chose not to listen to our concerns. We were very calm (although not feeling very calm) and didn't speak accusingly...Also, when we took his DVD the first time around, it was because he was 7 assingments behind in his math class. He can't discipline himself to do his work and then relax with a movie, so we said we were taking it and as each assingment was done, he would be allowed to use it if he chose (this was over Spring Break). He hasn't done any of those 7 assignments or any assignments since. When we asked why we took his player back, he answered very snottily and said because he wanted it. So taking it back as well as his tv and stereo is to make a point. Cause verbal points don't get taken seriously. HIs employer has stated that he isn't doing his job to the best of his ability...slacking off when possible...so I'm not sure how long they are going to keep him around. I just hope we can get a counsillor as quickly as possible (we are isolated here and there is noone in our town) because, not only does HE need some sort of help, so do I.

Here I go, spouting off again.
Thanks though Lori, for your advice...it was all good...and it was all appreciated.

Kim
PS...has anyone heard of Therapeutic Boarding Schools? Saw it on the net...for teens in crisis. Another name is Teen Residential Treatment Centre. Anyone know of anywhere in Canada? Apparently it is a year program to give teens the help and support they need..."a safe, growth-oriented learning experience and a positive change of environment". Wondering if that may be an option. He'd get help he's not getting at home....

[imlulu]

I am a special needs teacher in an inner city grade 8. Please get your son counselling ASAP. He needs more than what you can provide. He disclosed that he has contemplated suicide..red flag..He should have been evaluated by a mental care professional right away at that point. Your son sounds depressed..critically depressed. Taking away his electronics is not going to work for him. I do that for my son when he doesnt do his chores. Please get him some help. You mention that there is nothing close by. Doesn't his school prvide services or know how to go about getting services??? If he is doing poorly and getting to school chronically late hasnt the school tried to work with you on that??? ANother resource might be your church or community center. I would start with the school.
Best of luck!

[Zurichnee]

"If he is doing poorly and getting to school chronically late hasnt the school tried to work with you on that??? "

No, the school hasn't done anything to date. Another hard thing is that his Dad is his math teacher and he is the only teacher who has done anything to try to help or discipline. None of the admin. has done anything. Well, let's amend that...the Principal did tell my husband today that if both of us agreed he would tell my son he could drop his math course and take study hall. That will take care of the lack of math homework or in school work getting done...but that's just a tip of the iceburg.

The school has a counsillor per say but she has recommended we see another person who is 3 hours away. We haven't been able to get in touch with him. We are hoping to touch base with him tonight to try and set up a meeting.

My son got up at 12:30 and went to school this afternoon and will go to his job (which he loves but as I stated before, they may let him go before long...he's had a couple warnings already) after school. I tried to bring a few points to his attention - the importance of school and being places on time, etc. but he just points the finger back at us...doesn't take responsibility for any of his actions. Just places blame when he gets a consequence he doesn't like.

I also did some research on teens in crisis and my son has almost every symptom of ADD (i've suspected this for a few years, but can't seem to get him tested...if we do it is't hundreds of dollars and a waiting list is miles long. I'm going to bring it up to the counsillor at school again) as well as Oppositional Defiant Disorder. He has every sympton listed and apparently they go hand in hand.

If we can't get the help we need I don't know what we are going to do...I am mad as all get out at him, I'm frustrated with him, I'm sad, and I'm scared for him. I'm also scared for our family. And his sister is starting to feel the effects of the tension. She has made comments about his behavior and tries to make herself scarce when she sees him do something. She is a smart girl and a good girl, and I don't want her to have to pay the price. I've spent most of the past few months in tears - sad tears, frustrated tears and scared tears. I think I myself have an anxiety disorder as I am anxious all the time and worry about everything to the point that I think it clouds my ability to think and make good decisions. I have to think so hard to make a choice. I also think I am mildly depressed. My husband is depressed. WE are all a mess....

Thanks for your help and support. I'm sure we will get thru this eventually, but it's a trial.

[kittycat]

********{HUGS}}}}} Zurichnee. My heart goes out to you although I don't have many answers for you. I did a search on the web for some residential help in Canada and came up with these web pages:

http://ca.altavista.com/web/results?q=troubled+teens+canada&kgs=1&kls=0

http://schoolsforteens.com/pub/sftbooklets/

There are some U.S. sites there, but also some Canadian sites. I hope there is something there that can help. I know in Calgary there is a program for kids going through rough times, but unfortunately, I can't think of the name of it right now. It's a residential program for the troubled teen and where the whole family participates in counselling sessions. If I can think of the name of it, I'll post again. I'm sure there must be other cities with the same type of help.

As for how you're feeling, I really think it is totally NORMAL to be worried, anxious and depressed. Please see a doctor yourself and tell him/her how you're feeling. I'm sure he/she will be at least able to help you with these feelings and even possibly offer some suggestions on how to help your son.

Healing thoughts and prayers are going out to you and your family right now.
PAT

[ April 20, 2004, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: kittycat ]

[JennyTN]

Oh, I feel for you and your family!!!
I know how you feel...I do not have a teenager, but when my sister was a teenager my family had the exact same problem with her...down to the last detail (except suicide) and maybe even a little more. We also thought the family was falling apart...she was smoking, having sex, lying, failing her classes in high school, and pretty much doing everything my parents told her not to do. She was a completely different person around us than she was towards other people. My parents have brought us up in a loving supportive Christian family, so I don't think it has anything to do with your skills as a parent.

I am not here to give advice but to share my similar experience...I know that every teenager is different. My parents tried everything, but taking away her priviledges/grounding was something that DID NOT work. She probably would have benefited from counseling, but she never took counseling or anything because she insisted that she didn't have a problem. Ultimately my parents kind of backed off from her and quit being so uptight about it. A counselor told them that they had to let her hit rock bottom and decide for herself that her life needs to change. That they couldn't change her. I think the major thing was that she had a terrible lack of self esteem. She was so popular in high school, ( even voted Homecoming queen and Most Beautiful) but she had everyone's approval but her own.

My words of encouragement (if this helps at all): she finally just grew out of it. I think that after awhile she started noticing that the attention that she was getting was negative attention--rumors were going around, her reputation was ruined, no one was taking her seriously. She lost a lot of her girlfriends and eventually she started wanting everyone to take her seriously and respect her. Another thing that changed her is that all of her friends now have graduated college and have these great jobs and she doesn;t, so that motivates her to get her act together. Although she is still kind of mixed up self-esteem/life direction wise, she has found a job that she really likes and it gives her confidence in herself. She now has healthy, more mature relationships with boyfriends and has grown very close to my mom and dad and especially myself. We just stuck by her the whole time as she was going through her whole teenager crisis and let her know that we cared and eventually she is back to the person that we always knew.

I'm not saying that this always happens, but being a teenager is sooo hard. You have no choice but to take the suicide threat seriously and get him some counseling, but more than likely he will not be like this forever.
I will keep you in my prayers because I know what it is like.

[ April 20, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: JennyTN ]

[Heaklea]

My prayers are with you. I know how difficult this is for you. I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't.

Did I understand your husband is his teacher at school? If that is the case, I feel double for your husband. Here he is trying to be a good role model and his own son is showing him great disrespect privately and publicly.

Think very seriously about the Theraputic Schools, some are excellent, but some are borderline abusive. Research it carefully. If you find out he is doing drugs, I would consider a school that works through those problems.

My son is now 21 and he was not an easy teenager. He went to school and managed to get good enough grades to get into college, but he was rude and irresponsible. I feel for you.

Anyone that puts down your parenting should be dismissed. There are awful parents with wonderful kids and horrible kids from wonderful parents. I have taught siblings and cannot believe they came from the same family.

Stay strong and healthy.

Love
Heather

[Zurichnee]

I can't believe the support I am getting from all of you! I am reading your posts and find myself in tears (mind you, that's been part of my life the past few months...can't seem to stop crying sometimes).

I just wanted to thank Pat for the links to schools in Canada. I am doing some serious research. I'm not sure that's the route we will take, but I'm trying to leave all our options open. I also don't want to send him somewhere where he will be mistreated or receive no help at all.

Jenny, thanks for sharing your story. It does help to read about other experiences. Taking away certain privelidges is just another attempt at trying to get him to learn what is expected (example: he was to do research online for homework and ended up spending to much time chatting with friends and not doing the homework. "Homework" became an excuse to get online. So, we took away his internet priveledges for awhile, - in the end, he still didn't do his homework). So I do see your point that taking things away might not work. It did for me and my husband, but in this case you very well could be right. (imlulu also stated this)

Heather - yes, my husband is his math teacher this year, so he finds it doubly hard. He doesn't come down on my son any differently than any other student but I think my son resents having his father as a teacher. I think if he does get called on not having his homework done, or is told to change seats because he is disrupting the kids near him - he doesn't like having Dad (who is the teacher) discipline him. Tough on both...then they have to come home after school and deal with other issues. My son says he isn't doing any drugs and I don't think he is. Mind you , he isn't very honest so who knows. I don't think he is but only a drug test would let us know. Everytime I "take his word" or "give him the benefit of the doubt", I find out he's lied.

After school today, my husband said the principal has arranged for my son to drop the math class and take study hall for the rest of the sememster. This will stop the goings on with school, (well, exept the tardiness) but won't stop the rest of our problems.

Hopefully we will get thru to that counsillor tonight. The sooner the better. Maybe he can help us all.

[patinoh]

We had someone posting on another board...who was going thru this with a daughter.Sorry,I don't remember which board,but maybe she'll see your post & reply.I do believe an out of control teen can tear a family apart.You must know in your heart that you will not allow that.Maybe you & your husband,along with any other children could have a talk & assure each other that it will NOT happen to you,that husband & wife will always be the base of the family.Although he's taking a lot of your time,you're well aware of the rest of the family & that you'll all get thru this rough time...as a unit.There may come a time,when you'll have to say,we're saving this family,the family comes 1st & if you decide not to be in the family...it's your choice.Talk of suicide should be taken seriously from anyone,any age.

A neighbor has been going thru this for 2 yrs & their 14 yr old son left last wk for a residential home for troubled boys.They went thru all you mentioned & more.They were at the point where they slept with bedroom doors locked.One thing they never hesitated to do, was calling the police if they suspected drugs, or he was violent.He knew they would not allow either behavior in their home.They have 3 other children.His acting out in school finally brought parents,school counceler & state workers together & the home was the result.Don't know how Canada is set up in that way,so can't advise.My feeling is you need to call every school,teacher,school board member & more.Can you go to the police for advice?You arenot a bad parent.Bad parents don't care.This is such a common thing,parents with several children,decent family people with one wild child.Wish I had an answer for you.Sometimes life hands us problems, that only our prayers can help us thru.Take heart & keep looking for help.be a pest,call them over & over. Good Luck

[LegalEagle]

Please get some help for him now. I mean profesional help. i.e., a doctor. You can begin by getting him to his pediatrician/primary care doctor TODAY.
I have a 20 yr. old son, so I am familiar with some of the issues you mention.

But, more than that, I had a close family member who committed suicide. NO ONE paid attention to his mention of suicide, until we found his body in our house.

My son has never mentioned suicide, but I have always been on alert for any signs of it.

You need to get help today, and I mean this seriously.

Dawna

[quincy]

I want to preface this by saying that I don't have any children but based on experiences with family members and friends--it sounds like you may need to test him for drugs. Maybe you can take him to the family physician and have them run some bloodwork on him as part of an overall, routine physical and then they can also do a drug test. Dr. Phil had a family on recently that was going through exactly what you are going through and that son was definitely on drugs and they took him immediately to a rehab. Then again, maybe he has depression or is bi-polar in which case he could get on medication. Either way, your son may be angry at you now for the intervention but in the long run you will be saving his life and his future. You will all be in my prayers.

[Zurichnee]

Good morning everyone -
First, thanks for your support and advise...it's all good. Some things I've tried, some things I am in the process of trying, and somethings need to be tried.

My husband and I are not taking a back seat in this issue...I will be phoning a counsillor today who is from another town but is supposed to be in our town next month. Hoping to get a hold of him so set up appointments. Our town is a small, isolated town in the middle of Manitoba...we have 2 doctors, so no one has a family doctor and you can't always get seen. A crappy set up all around.
We live in a Native community as my husband teaches here, and although there is support from friends and the school counsillor (she can only go so far and she is the one who gave us the number of the counsillor from out of town) there isn't much here in the way of help for our son. There is a thing called "Minasowin" which is essentially like a Children's Aid Socitey, but once you seek help from them and they "open a file", then your name goes on the child abuse registry, which is just rediculous!

So, we are trying...just not getting anywhere fast. I may get him to a Doctor tho - to get checked out for depression...medication may help somewhat, but it won't solve everything...too many issues.

Again, thanks

Kim

[MarlaB]

Someone mentioned prayer...it is so POWERFUL! Our children are gifts from God; they don't really belong to us. God loves our children more than we ever could and is always ready to lend a helping hand, if only we would just ASK.

I have a daughter who nearly drove me over the edge. No need for details. There hasn't been a day in her life that I have not gone to God in prayer and received His grace to deal with so many problems and crises. I have personally seen His miracle working power turn around several seemingly hopeless situations.

God sees the End from the Beginning. I only wish I did. Next month my 25 year old daughter graduates with a Masters degree in Education.

ALL THE GLORY GOES TO GOD!

[ April 21, 2004, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: MarlaB ]

[LegalEagle]

Marla, Very well put ~ I have used prayer many, many, times in dealing with issues with my son & other issues in my life as well.
Recently, we went through a difficult time with DS, even though he is living away at college. Both DH & I prayed for him every day, and our prayers were answered.

Never underestimate the power of prayer.

Dawna

[KAWS]

My heart goes out to you. As I read this it took me back 2 years to when our son was 16 and he was going through the EXACT same thing. I thought I would lose my mind (and practically did I am sure) and it did change things drastically around here for several months.

Every child and situation is different, I know, but I'll tell you what I did and have learned and hopefully you can get something useful from my experience.

The first thing that we did when my son told me that he wanted to kill himself, was ask him if he totally understood and meant what he said. When he said yes, I immediately picked up the phone and called 911. The police immediately came and told him that he had two choices - one to go with his parents to the hospital to see a mental health crisis worker or he could be arrested and be taken to the hospital to see the crisis worker. He, obviously, chose to go with us and that was the beginning of our healing.

He continued with that crisis worker for several months and then we, as parents, got some counselling as well. What we found out was that we cannot control our son. It's impossible to do. Only he can do this. He has to learn the natural consequences to things and to make his own mistakes and choices and live with those consequences, no matter what they are.

The counsellor said all kids break away from their parents around now, and it's not always an easy transition. So, as hard as it was, if he chose not to go to classes and skipped or missed assignments, and consequently failed a class, then that's what happened. Did it happen? Yes it did. Did it take him longer to finish high school? Yes it did. Did he lose jobs because of his irresponsibility? Yes he did that too.

A couple of things that he did choose to do though, were good. He chose first of all to change schools, because apparently he was having trouble with some of the kids and also had gotten into a bad crowd and didn't seem to know how to break away from them. This was a WONDERFUL move for him and so for grade 12, he transferred elsewhere. This meant that he would make new friends and get reacquainted with old ones that he had left behind in elementary school.

Eventually he got himself a new job, he finished his classes (with the help of a co-op program, which I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend if you can get him into one) and we have learned that everything that we once thought was a crisis didn't have to be.

We had to physically lock up things that we didn't want him to get his hands on, learn not to ask him "did you" or "why" questions or give him other opportunities to lie to us, and watch how much negative talk and actions we directed towards him.

Sound bleak? Well the good news is there's light at the end of the tunnel. At least for us there was.

Our son will be 19 in October. He finished high school in January. In September he will start college (he wants to be a firefighter). He's got a job that will take him until then full time and then afterwards, hopefully part time, and he actually likes spending time with us again! He is home at reasonable hours, calls us when he's going to be late (rarely) and helps out around the house again (his standards of course! LOL).

Please get some help for your son, and for you. There are some things, that love just isn't enough to fix. I wish it was enough, but sometimes it just isn't. Trust the professionals that see this sort of thing all the time. Don't take no for an answer with a counsellor and if anything just doesn't feel right, stick with it until it does. And don't let a counsellor or mediator discharge you until YOU feel you're ready.

Good luck. I do know where you're coming from.

Kim (too)

[dinahmom]

A few points:
1) Residential treatment (therapeutic boarding school) seems too much at this point. Find out if they have any Day Treatment Centers where you are. I work at one in Oregon. The kids attend school here while living at home and get treatment for their issues; families get treatment too. Most of the kids are ADHD and ODD. Very common, very treatable if you get it early enough and the family is on board. Which you are. Leave residential treatment as a last option, but it doesn't hurt to find out what is out there.
2) Ask the school for testing for emotional disturbance. This is your right. If he does meet the criteria for ED, then he can get on an Individualized Education Plan, which would help him to get any counseling he might need.
3) If he is ADHD, there is effective medication available. I know there is controversy about this, but I have seen "miracles" with the RIGHT meds. I have also seen untreated kids totally unable to control themselves, trying as hard as they can, and failing.
4) Go ahead and get some counseling for yourself! You are going through a rough time and deserve some help!

He sounds like most of the kids at my Center, and most of them turn out great!

kd

[lilwitch78]

I am glad to help. Your son definately needs to be evaluated by a therapist. He needs to be tested for bipolar, someone mentioned ADHD and clinical depression. All of them will cause him to act the way he does. Fortunately there is treatment for all of them.


Sorry to hear that his school is not helping any. Unfortunately in the US if a teacher mentions to a counselor that a child is having problems they have to do something. There are also programs called "Tough Love". I am not sure if they are in Canada but you should look into them.


I would definately find him an analysis to get to the root of the problem. Another suggestion is your son's doctor. They might be able to refer you to the properly trained doctors that specialize in situations like this.

You are still in my prayers. Keep in touch.

[Zurichnee]

Hi Everyone-
Just wanted to "drop in" for a quick update. I have not been online since sometime Wednesday...here's why.

Because of my son's lack of work in math class (homework or daily class work, etc), he was involuntarily withdrawn from the class. He blames his Dad (remember...math teacher too!), but the withdrawal came down from the office. The Principal had stated each morning on the announcements that the kids must attend school and be working...if they are not there to work, then there will be consequences. Apparently the Principal had been trying to track down my son for a week before, but since he was never in school on time, he wasn't gotten a hold of. Therefore it fell on my husband to inform my son that day when he came to class. Not a good scene. My son was extremely angry. He told me after school (when I was taking him to work) that now, not only did his suicide plan have a place and "way" (meaning he knew how he was going to do it), he also had a "when".

I raced back to his school to try to find his counsillor...spoke for a bit and went home. My husband and I were very worried. My son had told me he didn't want either my husband or I to pick him up from work. My husband went anyway - what was he going to do? Was he planning to come home at all? We didn't know. While DH was waiting, he saw a lady who works for the Minasawin Agency (children's services worker from town)...she told us we had the option to call the RCMP and have him arrested under the Mental Health Act. We did. One of the hardest things we've ever done. They took him to the hospital where he spoke with a doctor, nurse, RCMP, and some sort of counsillor. They decided they should fly him out to Winnipeg to see someone there. I had to go because he is under age. Off we went.

We got there at 11:30 at night. It was 1:30 before my son saw a doctor. IT was 2:00 before he spoke with me (the doctor). My son was sent to a Stabilization Unit for Boys for 2 nights. It was a lock down unit...he was allowed nothing of his own - not even his toothpaste. 4 cameras in his room and he was checked every 10 minutes thru the night. During the day he watched tv or played video games (no different than at home, really - I mean about the games and tv). I couldn't see him but could talk to him on the phone.

Friday a.m. he saw a psychiatrist. He validated our sons feelings as well as our own. Talked for awhile and decided my son wasn't clinically depressed and if he wanted to come home he could.

So, we are home. He is at work right now. I don't feel a whole lot better, but do have to say that my son is talking a bit more to us now than before. He isn't totally understanding where we are coming from as parents and still wants to "win"...even tho someone else told us it's not a blame game and it's a power struggle that we as parents can't afford to lose. He told us our son is banging his head on a brick wall and my husband and I ARE the brick wall. If we back down, the brick wall moves and he will tumble thru and be worse off than before.

Until we meet with a counsillor next month, my son still won't have the coping skills to deal with his anger and frustrations...if he can't control them, we may all be right back to square one...so until then, I'm still going to be on pins and needles everyday.

Again, thanks all for all the advice and for sharing your stories. I AM praying hard everyday...I am taking everyone's advice seriously and thinking hard about what's been said.

Kim

PS>..Psychiatrist said he'd be surprised if my son tested postive for ADD or ODD...he doesn't think so, but to get the counsillor to set up testing anyway. I fully plan to!

[patinoh]

"He isn't totally understanding where we are coming from as parents and still wants to "win"...even tho someone else told us it's not a blame game and it's a power struggle that we as parents can't afford to lose. He told us our son is banging his head on a brick wall and my husband and I ARE the brick wall. If we back down, the brick wall moves and he will tumble thru and be worse off than before."

Hello again.Because of his age,he might not understand till he's older.I agree with the advice. You are the parent & that means you have to stand tall & not let him get away with his "stuff" You can bend where needed,but he needs to know he can't scam you.I'm sorry you had to go thru that, but on the other hand...every small step leads you farther along.Keep the faith & don't let it make you crazy.We'll listen anytime.Remember, many of us have been thru it, & have the gray hair to prove it! tongue.gif

[Heaklea]

Your still in my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong and make sure your marriage stays strong. You need each other.
Love
Heather

[judyo53]

Oh Kim,

I didn't know to respond here on in our e-mail, since you're my "Buddy." But I figured I'd write my saga (try to keep it as short as possible) for all to see.

My daughter, Renee, has a disease called alopecia aereata. She lost her hair at age 12. It has been an extremely difficult time. She was on the dean's list but ended up dropping out of high school. She did get her GED & was working towards her associates degree at a junior college but never finished. She's 28, moved out at 17 & just moved back home for the first time with her 18 month old daughter (from an ex beau). She is an alcoholic/drug abuser who is trying to work things out. She goes to counseling & AA meetings but is clinically depressed & trying to find new meds that work for her since nothing was working before. She also plays the blame game & I'm fed up with it & have had to put my foot down about that stuff. She doesn't cause any real problems at home besides just being nasty & she unfortunately has very little mothering instinct, so I pretty much am raising my granddaughter.

My 25 year old son was Dennis the Menace & I had the worse time raising him. I thought it was because he was a boy. But when my youngest son started developing a personality, I realized my older son was not acting normal. We finally had him tested (at age 9) & he had ADHD. I'm so against medicating children that I refused putting him on anything. There's more details but he has grown up to be a good worker, husband & father to my grandson. He is happily married & is buying a nicer house than I have. And he was a problem child since I can remember. He was kicked out of pre-school & I always had a "close" relationship with his teachers & school principals. He did graduate high school & started going to college but ended up getting a good job & hasn't furthered his education (his wife has a PhD).

My youngest son lost all of his hair at age 7. He was my little buddy until around age 14, 15. He was also put into a special school (by his grade school's request) & although he was never tested by anyone other than the school, it was pretty much accepted that he had ADD (without the hyperactivity my other son had). I took him to one counselor but didn't like the guy at all & was a single mother at the time & I just tried to do the best I could. He was never really violent or anything, which I guess is why I didn't pursue much of anything outside of the school's help, which was pretty good. His special school had counseling built in but he was able to "earn" his way back to regular school, which he did on his own. However, as soon as he was in regular high school (a great accomplishment to get out of the special school on your own), he kind of fell to the wayside & was maybe 1 or 2 credits short of graduating. This is where I started having problems. He didn't care. He refused to go back to school for another year. He wouldn't follow up to get his GED. He wouldn't get a job. Always excuses. I guess I've babied him because of his hair loss disease (alopecia) & just try to understand him since he doesn't cause any other trouble. But he will turn 21 this year & still doesn't have a job (he doesn't drive a car either, he has no interest). He has friends & a wonderful girlfriend, so he's not isolated. They all want the best for him, too, & his girlfriend might have a job for him next month.

I got remarried 2 years ago & my husband has the most difficulty with my youngest son because my husband is a very motivated person & simply can't understand it. He's not mean to my son or anything & has tried to help him, but my son doesn't feel that there's a problem! We've sat down & had family discussions & I am worried about my son never growing up (he refuses to get counseling & since he's not a suicide or physical threat I don't know what to do), plus I'm worried about my husband since he's very unhappy about the situation. My son has very low self esteem & is afraid of everything (working, driving, etc.). I know this all stems from his hair loss (at least my daughter can wear a wig). My son is very tall, skinny & "stark" looking without hair, eyebrows & eyelashes. He actually has put in applications but hasn't been hired & part of it might be because of the way he looks. Nothing I can prove & I don't even want to put that into my son's head, but I'm sure he suspects it. So hopefully he'll get this job next month (at a pet store-probably won't last) & maybe it will give him some self esteem as he'll be working with his girlfriend's step-father, whom he knows very well.

So here I have two out of three kids with a disease that no one knows much about (we have found alopecia support groups over the years but my son doesn't want anything to do with them--my daughter is really into the support group). They both have problems that stem very much from the disease itself & lack of self esteem from being/looking different & my daughter actively seeks help/counseling on her own but still struggles daily. And my son is a nice, funny guy that just has absolutely no motivation & doesn't want to grow up & is afraid of so much. It would be easier if he did cause trouble & I could show some "tough love" or have him arrested & taken straight to a mental health center but he's not doing anything bad.

I know people have told me to just kick him out but I do feel sorry for him because of the crappy disease he got dealt with & I guess I have coddled him too much. It's not that I haven't tried, though. I've tried to get him to counseling but he won't go (he's 6' 2"-I can't drag him off). I've tried threatening him & taking things away over the years; it doesn't work. He's not abusive otherwise (although he's also a slob) & he'll actually help me with little things & we can sit down & talk & laugh & everything. I keep thinking that one day he'll grow up.

If this job thing doesn't come through next month I've already told him we're going to take steps to get some help, possibly with public aid since he's an adult (they might be able to find a job training program or something) because he even said a few years ago that if he doesn't have a job by 21 I can kick him out. Well, that date is coming soon & I know he's regretting saying that. And he's not self sufficient & I really don't think it will help him by just throwing him out of the house.

OK, I've written a novel here, which I didn't want to do. So, Kim, I'm another person going through a lot with my kids, too. It's been a long struggle for me & I still don't have many answers. You seem to be on the right track, though, & I wish you the best of luck. But like everyone has said, don't blame yourselves. I was raised in a fairy tale existence but when I was 14 I got in with a bad crowd & tried alcohol & drugs. However, I'm not a real follower & decided that wasn't the life for me & I ended a very long friendship with my best girlfriend because she became a part of that circle. She eventually grew out of it & ended up getting married & having kids, so it was just a growing phase for her, too. We grew up at the end of the hippie days; peace, drugs & love-free love (I was the only virgin in the group & always felt very out of place). But I never brought it home & to this day my parents have no idea I ever went through that period.

So as everyone here has pointed out, many times the kids just need to grow out of it themselves. Some continue to struggle, like my two children, some grow out of their problems, like my middle son. And it's never, ever easy for us parents that love our children & only want the best.

[BEJAMS]

This is my first time to every use this forum. I just felt the need to chat with you. Have you thought about whether your son is involved with drugs? My son showed some of the same symptons i of course ask him and he said no, really reashured us that we were on the wrong track. We were not. Eight years later we are still dealing with it. He is now in drug re-hab and admits to us he was using at 15. For the first time in 7 years we are getting some hope. He has been sober for 3 months. By the way, we had a great relatinship with him while he was growing up and we still love him very much. My husband Is a Chaplain and I was a stay at home mom for 13 years.I will pray for your son, and for you. I hope you get help. I wish I would have recognized it sooner. If I could change any thing it would be to get help and I hate to say this but don't just believe what they want you too. My prayers are with you. My son was on The honor roll and one of the most popular kids in school. He just got in with the wrong friends

[Zurichnee]

Bejams,
Thanks for your post. No we don't THINK our son is using drugs. Yeah, he told us he isn't but with only lies to go on we can't be sure. My husband checked with a social worker to find out if we have the right to check his room for drugs or cigarettes, since we can't trust that he'll be truthful. He says yes, at this age and stage we do. I hate to do it...really bugs me, but we have looked a couple times and came up empty for drugs but found cigarettes. No drugs or "tools" of any sort. And he really doesn't go anywhere other than work so is usually home. Part of me would like to have him tested though, to assure us that he is not...then we wouldn't wonder. I don't know.

He was working on Sunday afternoon. I returned a movie to the video store and was driving home when I saw a familiar car coming towards me. It belonged to one of two people that I know, so I raised me hand to wave...well - I got quite a shock because it was my son driving this car!!! Alone!!! He is 15...not permit of any kind. Totally illegal. So, I freaked....so much could have happened to him, to the car....if the cops caught him he would have been in so much trouble. And, mind you, he was on the clock at work. He told me he was on a break. That could be, but about 30 - 45 minutes earlier I'd stopped into the store he works at for hamburger buns and he was in a co workers van smoking. He doens't get 2 breaks, and usually Sunday - since it is only 4 hours - they don't get a break. So, again...where's the honesty?

He is finally seeing a social worker from town here. I am glad he is...yesterday he was very angry with us again and refused to go. At the last minute, he got in the car and my husband took him to the social workers office. He was there an hour and the man brought him home. He is to go again today and tomorrow my husband and I are to meet with him. So, maybe we are finally getting the help we need so bad.

Oh, my husband and I are probably going to slack off on the cigarettes even tho it about kills us to go against what we believe in. We are thinking that if he takes the smokes out of his pockets when he comes home and then smokes outside only, we may give in. he can choose a spot such as top of fridge or a bookshelf to put them until he uses them. I would rather he be open and honest then be sneaking them around and lying about it. Any time he is asked about cigarettes, he says he bummed one at school and then later we find out he has a half a pack in his pocket. Yesterday he said he bought half a pack of someone but we discovered he had 2 brand new packs in his room. Yeah, we probably contributed to that when we told him to quit and not buy any more, but on the other hand when we first asked him if he was smoking he denied it emphatically. Almost like we were nuts and that he wouldn't smoke. The next day I bust him and it's been one lie after another. So, be honest and we might give in a bit. And if he takes them into his room, there is a fear his is going to smoke them in there...risk of fire.

I'm to the point of not knowing what to do...what consequences to give, etc. I told my husband the other day that we have no cards left to play...we played them all. He said yeah, the deck is worn out. So, hopefully, the S.W. and the counsillor from another town that is supposed to come in will deal us a new deck!

[ May 04, 2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Zurichnee ]